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(And by men I mean non-AGP men.)

I know men also murder them because they hate femininity, but why are most woke bros (and also regular bros) so hell bent on hating on "TERFs"? I had two male acquaintances talk passionately about TERFs; couldn't make out any reasonable argument, but I still wonder what they gain from this. My only hypothesis is so that they can reap the sexual benefits of homosexual sex while being perceived as straight, and because TIM prostitutes are way cheaper.

(And by men I mean non-AGP men.) I know men also murder them because they hate femininity, but why are most woke bros (and also regular bros) so hell bent on hating on "TERFs"? I had two male acquaintances talk passionately about TERFs; couldn't make out any reasonable argument, but I still wonder what they gain from this. My only hypothesis is so that they can reap the sexual benefits of homosexual sex while being perceived as straight, and because TIM prostitutes are way cheaper.

48 comments

[–] LOriginedumonde 96 points (+96|-0) Edited

why are most woke bros (and also regular bros) so hell bent on hating on "TERFs"?

It gives them a socially acceptable cover for blatantly hating on women.

[–] kalina 39 points (+39|-0)

this. and honestly I think some of them just have fun being annoying and agressive towards women. They wouldn't be so into trans rights if all women already agreed with it and they just had to fight men.

[–] bellatrixbells 30 points (+30|-0)

Definitely. Someone posted a Vice article where they interviewed incels, and one of them said he made tons of anonymous accounts on social media just to troll feminists.

He said he didn't even hate us, he just thought it was really funny and entertaining how quickly he could get a rise out of us.

(Imagine the privilege when riling up people who are denouncing being raped and killed is your daily past time)

[–] Killer_Danish 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

...And then these same incels cry and cry and cry, "woe is me!" when not a single woman will give their smelly, hateful, mom's basement-dwelling asses the time of day.

But, whatevs — they get to "totally own" feminists on Twitter! I mean, that's all there is to life, right? Screaming at female strangers on the internet? Fuck actual hobbies, experiences, careers, relationships, and love... Cheetos, RedBull, and an army of equally hateful anonymous male internet strangers are all the friends a guy needs in life! /s

[–] spinstah 13 points (+13|-0)

"Just thought it was funny" is part of the typical "playing dumb" defense. It is very common for men to pretend they don't care, pretend they don't understand, pretend they're joking, etc when they do something wrong. It's a tactic to shrug off accountability that they hone over their entire lives.

[–] notyourfetish 2 points (+2|-0)

Imagine the privilege when riling up people who are denouncing being raped and killed is your daily past time

And he also must have zero life to spend so much time on the internet. So pathetic.

[–] VeggieAnnie 48 points (+48|-0)

I've been thinking a lot about men's interest in policing the category "Man." There is a lot of talk about the category "Woman," but I think what's really going on with a lot of men is the desire to enforce the traditional boundaries of the category "Man." (I hope people understand the way I am using the words in quotes. Categories are related to material reality, but also humans/societies want to shore up the boundaries of certain things.) The reason I started thinking about this is because the places with the most machismo (rigid definitions of manliness) have big trans populations, especially homosexual transsexuals. Then I was thinking about how Iran will transition a man, but not let me him be homosexual. Also, Thai 'ladyboys.' etc.

So I started thinking that men are really committed to this idea that "Man" is a well-defined category, and everyone else (male and female) can be shoved in the other intellectual column, labeled "Woman." So, gay men traditionally get shoved in the "Woman" column; cross-dressers; sensitive guys, whatever. Men want to keep their category rigidly policed.

Therefore, to them it makes sense to say "transwomen are women" because they are happy to let a GNC male LEAVE their category (Man) and go over to the other group. And they're angry if anyone argues and insists that these unmanly men stay in their own lane.

Does that make sense?

[–] bellatrixbells 15 points (+15|-0)

It does make sense, and historically that's what's been going on : men who weren't deserving of the all holy "man" status were downgraded to the inferior status of "woman". However, the contrary was not possible : a woman who fit into more stereotypical "man" behavior gets retrograded to something even lesser, cause she needs to be punished as a non complying woman, and she can never deserve to be a man becahse she lacks the almighty organ.

So the parallel is very valid, but it would depend on how the woke bros you speak of view trans men. I agree there are a lot more concessions demanded of women in any way, but if they stick by TMAM, there's probably a different explanation.

[–] LOriginedumonde 12 points (+12|-0)

I moved to a different state a few years ago but all of my estranged woke bro friends who now scream TWAW used to make fun of my TIF roommate behind her back and would say that she will never be a man. Almost all, if not all men’s sense of self revolves around what’s between their legs so you can’t tell me that they’ll ever view a female “man” without the penis as a real man. If they did then they’d actually be threatened by TIFs which they’re not.

[–] levitation 8 points (+8|-0)

I was in an anthro class many moons ago and the professor said, in cultures with "third gender categories," that it was very easy for men to leave the "man" category but incredibly difficult for women to leave the "woman" category. This was because women were considered lesser, so men could leave the "superior" category by lowering themselves to do traditionally feminine things, but women were already considered inferior and couldn't rise "above their station" by doing masculine things. That or they'd be brutalized for trying.

[–] banjo 40 points (+40|-0) Edited

How about it's just a way of saying they hate feminists without looking like conservatives?

To get a little deeper.. it suits men to pretend that sex as a way of categorizing people doesn't matter, and that gender roles are innate. Men can probably intuit that gender ideology does not threaten their hierarchy and even secures it by making it harder to talk about

[–] lucrecia 38 points (+38|-0)

It's a backlash against feminism. These men have been sitting uncomfortably for a few years while it was socially acceptable to mock men. Now, suddenly, a new villain enters the stage! These men are no longer the bad guys! Every time they've wanted to talk shit about women, but feared being called sexist, can now be expressed because now they have a socially acceptable way to do so! The hatred they felt for women, that worried them a bit-- it's fine, it was actually hatred for terfs. They were just picking up on it before there was a word. Yes, sometimes they may have said some unacceptable things in the past, or maybe committed an assault or two when they were young and foolish, but it's okay, because at least they are growing as people, and terfs are so much worse. They're not really harmful. Not like those terfs.

It's a way of displacing their self-hatred and guilt because they're deeply insecure, and like most insecure men, they lash out at women.

[–] ArmyofMe 32 points (+32|-0)

Men support men, even ones in skirts.

Most of them won’t date a TIM but they get to trash women and that is the important part.

[–] carpetplaydohx2 22 points (+22|-0)

In my experience, they don't -- but I am also an older woman, and the older men I know generally put TIMs in the same category as they put crossdressers, fetishists, and "general perverts." They aren't going to be rude face-to-face, but they're also not going to support these guys sharing bathrooms with their wives/daughters/granddaughters.

That said, my assumption as to why a man who isn't a TIM would support the TRA movement would be because men really, really, really love pushing women's boundaries -- and to be able to do that while publicly shitting on women and getting away with it (AND being cheered on by so-called feminists? It's gotta be like hitting the jackpot!). I'm going to assume that any man who's spitting "terf" at women and screaming about trans rights is a nice guy, an MRA, or a misogynist. Or hey -- maybe he's the trifecta in the form of a male feminist!

TIMs in the same category as they put crossdressers, fetishists, and "general perverts.

They’re absolutely correct, too.

[–] GCRadFem 21 points (+21|-0)

I think they all jump on the anti-terf bandwagon because it is the easiest and only socially appropriate acronym or group on which to vent all of their anger, hostility and collective rage.

Most have zero idea what it even means.

Besides that, all males are in the brotherhood. Regardless if straight men think TIMS are out in left field or not, they know that they are men.

Men always support other men at the expense of women.

[–] Laurel 19 points (+20|-1)

Men know their boots are on women's necks. Men believe that, were the roles reversed, we would treat them the way they treat us. Therefore, men stick together in oppressing women.

[–] bellatrixbells 9 points (+9|-0)

I think some of them genuinely hate women and take this as an opportunity to be violent and insulting.

But I also think a lot of men also see us as inferior or less intelligent and autonomous pretty much unconsciously. They're also often attached to male privilege without necessarily realizing it and feel a lot of frustration when they can't just speak on top of us and explain things to us, therefore this new form of "feminism" they adhere to is perfect for them : they can say they are for the rights of women, because in many ways they are, while also dispensing from listening to us and regaining their power to tell us to sit down while they mansplain life to us.

They also tend to think of us as part of whichever ethnic/cultural group they are part of and are impressively unaware of how much we are often viewed not as members of that group but as possessions of said group, which is the men. In their woke mind, they speak to us as "cis" and "white" (or Black, or Native, etc) as if we were on the same level. Pseudo feminism that claims men know as much about womanhood than women, and puts everything on top of sex, allows them for a way to consider us as fellow oppressors and therefore impose their point of view on us (and the irony is completely lost on them).

This is gonna be another of my unpopular opinions, but I think this is due to a failure we had both as feminists and as a society : we attempted to teach equity to children, but we forgot, or didn't know how to counter, the massive influence of history and media, and that played against us

On the one hand, we teach our kids that boys and girls are equals and that we live in an equal society, but on the other hand they see thousands of years of history where men are in command and most of all a media and consumer culture which teaches boys that they are in command while girls are their NPCs, basically. Even men who don't consciously want this will identity with the men on the screens, and in the books, etc, and eventually internalize that they are on top of us. It must be distressing to let go of that, especially if it's unclear what it ahould be replaced for.

[–] LesbianHelvetia 4 points (+4|-0)

I think this is a really good analysis and I also guess that by standing against TERF, they expect libfem to see them as "nice guy" and therefore think they deserve sexual favour from them .

[–] bellatrixbells 2 points (+2|-0)

In some cases it might be that. But I simply don't believe all men do everything they do in the hopes of getting sexual favors from women.

[–] Mikkal 7 points (+7|-0)

All the men I know are in the "transwomen are men and we all know it, but we humor them a bit to make them feel better" boat - I don't really know any staunch TIM supporting men.

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