This is a women-centered, radical feminism oriented circle to discuss gender from a critical, feminist perspective.
The Sitewide Rules and Sitewide Guidelines are both enforced here.
This circle is especially for discussions about gender and transgender ideology/politics. Please use /o/WomensLiberation is for discussions about other feminist topics. /o/Activism is for calls to action, including petitions and fundraisers, and /o/FeministEvents is for posting events.
This circle is focused on articles, news articles, and discussion posts.
Most images belong in other circles, as do examples of individual trans activists doing off-the-wall things, as do some news subjects and many personal posts that aren't political:
For discussion about Ovarit, check the meta circles:
Feminism is the movement to liberate women from patriarchy. We stand up for the rights of women to control our own bodies as individuals and to control women-only spaces as a class.
Women are adult human females. We do not believe that men can become women by 'feeling' like women or 'identifying' as women. We condemn the erasure of females and female-only spaces, the silencing of critical thinking, the cancelling of feminists and critics, the denial of biological reality and of sex-based oppression. We oppose the 'cotton ceiling' and the pressure on lesbians to have sex with men. Women are oppressed to exploit their biological sex characteristics, and women have a right to a movement that is about their own liberation from that oppression. We resist the redefinition of both "women" and "feminism" to make them serve men.
"Women do not decide at some point in adulthood that they would like other people to understand them to be women, because being a woman is not an ‘identity.’ Women’s experience does not resemble that of men who adopt the ‘gender identity’ of being female or being women in any respect. The idea of ‘gender identity’ disappears biology and all the experiences that those with female biology have of being reared in a caste system based on sex." –Sheila Jeffreys, Gender Hurts
46 comments
I love it when men tell on themselves by revealing the depravity of their minds but call it "human nature". Nah, that's just you, bro.
I know right? "traversed by sadomasochist spins"
....nah.
Although if anything this reveals in a way the hypocrisy of TIMs who also think this way.
I don't think his work should be celebrated really. IMO it's a lot of mumbo-jumbo (but again I'm nothing of a philosopher.) I think though what he's trying to say here is that there's no way an authentic "gender identity" can exist apart from pressures of patriarchy and social conditioning, which seems pretty accurate. Too bad he's mixing up sex with gender here though.
Human almost always means "man".
Sometimes I feel like I'm not smart enough to understand Zizek, but then I wonder if maybe what he's saying doesn't make that much sense. I do wish to understand why so many people listen to the guy.
He oftentimes doesn't make a lot of sense, it's not you.
He makes a lot of sense to those who have a background/interest in psychoanalysis and philiosophy so if you're not interested in that sort of thing, esp Lacan and Hegel, he will most likely not make any sense to you.
Yeah, this. It’s OK if it’s not your thing, but anti-intellectualism isn’t the way. Not everyone has read Lacan, it’s fine, but simply not understanding what Zizek is saying is not a great reason to dismiss it.
It reminds me of my annoyance with the ways in which people attack Judith Butler — I strongly disagree with what she says, but attacking her work for being difficult and so obvious bullshit is, like, not the wonderful argument some seem to think it is.
To be able to understand Zizek, you need to immerse yourself in Zizek. The man writes like a maniac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavoj_%C5%BDi%C5%BEek_bibliography), but luckily there are themes and frameworks that he, in a sense, recycles. So once you go through a couple of books, you'll find similar jokes, similar reflections, based on similar concepts.
In many ways, he is rather impressive, but he is first and foremost a psychoanalyst (not a philosopher), and that is just not everyone's cup of tea.
Hi, the link is paywalled, can you post the text? What I've read of it seems to me to be wrongheaded but at least interestingly so.
I'm rather impressed with the Spectator for publishing him - they've been great on the GC front, and for a right wing magazine to publish an actual communist is impressively open-minded.
Zizek is antifeminist and has many troubling opinions on women.
https://medium.com/@sarabollman/žižek-is-right-about-sex-1b65a635cd95
As a radical feminist who isn't very keen on nudity being liberating, I really don't understand why you feel his opinions are troubling. What he explains IS the logic of the average liberal woman - I don't agree that they should objectify themselves but they do and they feel empowered by being the active agents. I would further argue that it isn't limited to feeling empowered because she gets to terminate the male gaze when she wants to and manipulate a situation to her desire but that in capitalist societies, being able to bank off of it has also become the most dominant understanding of liberation (the rise of self-published porn, cam girls, only fans etc).
Why is Zizek pointing this out so problematic? He is analysing the situation, he isn't giving his opinion as you seem to have claimed.
Now I can see why people have a hard time understanding him - he is from a psychoanalytic background. He analyses and tries to explain social reality in a very elusive, philosophical way.
I think others may be having the same problem as me, primarily what you mentioned about his psychoanalytic background. When reading his writing, it was coming across to me as 'this is how things are and how they always will be. this stuff is just inherent', but after reading the comments here by you & others and receiving some guidance from an aquaintence well-versed in Lacan - it really is the unfamiliarity with his other writings and not being familiar with psychoanalysis. If he truly is writing from the perspective of explaining the current state of things & how that logic is constructed rather than it seeming moreso like he is presenting his personal views - makes sense!
A lot of psychoanalytic writers, especially Lacanians, have a very decisive way of writing. Personally, I enjoy it but I have friends and colleagues who hate it. It’s a different style for sure. Thank you for checking in with your friend instead of relying on a kneejerk impression, like too many people do!
I do understand that people May have a hard time with the nuance of him describing the motivation and mental framework of people's choices, versus saying "this how it be," Though I appreciate your responses to these things.
He's anti #metoo as well
A lot of feminists, esp those who are anti-capitalist and anti-liberal oppose the #metoo movement.
Uhhh why would any feminist be anti metoo?
How so?
https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/transgender-dogma-is-naive-and-incompatible-with-freud/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScZCL0KYj3M
He is truly amazing and so enjoyable to listen to so I recommend everything by him but these links I have provided here are his gender-critical stuff.
Influential? He’s a self-important jargoneer we mostly point at and laugh.
Yeah, he uses a lot of psychoanalytic jargon which is not very relatable to the average person but to say he is self-important... I think not. He is amongst the very few who still have intellectual honesty and integrity - he speaks out regardless of the backlash he knows he and his career will suffer. Got to respect that.
Isn't his very career built on being provocative?
It reminds me of how people call Ricky Gervais brave, but he gets invited to host the Golden Globes year after year precisely because he's edgy.
I don't know much about Ricky Gervais so forgive me but Zizek is an intellectual who has spent his entire career trying to get the left to grow a backbone.
Have you seen his debate with Jordan Peterson? Zizek exposes these wishy-washy, postmodern characters to be the fascists and charlatans that they are. Peterson was humiliated and even he himself admitted that he got his ass handed back to him. Zizek is trying to bring the radical left back on the scene because we have been boxed in with these snowflake liberals who cry about pronouns and we have been so marginalised. He also explained how this was precisely his aim - throughout the whole debate with Peterson, Zizek was a lot more critical of typical right-wing concerns, even more than Peterson and he made JP look like the whiny postmodernist that they so desperately try to frame the left as being. It's brilliant and honestly, I learned so much from it and how to conduct myself and my debates.
I don't know that his ideas are designed to be provocative necessarily. He is quite infamous for his bodily hygiene and what sounds like a pointedly exaggerated accent in English (lots of strangling gutturals and lisping). He strikes me as trying to be like a male Judith Butler, but he can't quite get himself to write her level of cynical gobbledygook.
I find what I've seen from him reminiscent of my dad's old dinnertable rants. They can be entertaining in the delivery but there's not much substance. Tbf haven't seen a lot, but not really on my list based on what I've seen so far.
It's like when you're reading a poetry book and you're like "this must be too deep for me to understand" but maybe it's just nonsense
Haha, tbf I've been able to follow the little I've seen so far (Pervert's Guide to Ideology, and various misc articles floating around), but they didn't seem built on a solid foundation, so feels like theory on top of theory on top of theory with nobody checking if any of the assertions are true (or falsifiable). As a 'you could interpret this this way' I'm cool with it; as a 'this IS this', I'm like [citation needed]. I did also encounter an absolutely nutty medium profile from an ex pupil of his who was some kind of pro-death therapist or something. I'll have to dig it up. That one was similar in style to the gender woo.
Edit: Ah, not pro-death, just emo, and calling herself a 'necropsychoanalyst' to be edgy.
Please follow this sitewide guideline (which is a rule here) in the future:
Ok, thanks. Still getting used to this website...
Hell no I'm not praising that misogynist just because he's also gender critical.
Can you please send me a link to one thing which is misogynist?
Sure, though someone already posted one.
https://medium.com/@sarabollman/%C5%BEi%C5%BEek-is-right-about-sex-1b65a635cd95
Yeah, I already responded to this. Not misogynist in my opinion, he is describing the average liberal woman. It's a correct analysis (sadly).