28

24 comments

[–] TheEthicalHedonist 28 points (+28|-0)

Maybe if we stopped getting rape/death threats for acknowledging reality, we might stop the attempts at the polite neutral.

I’m glad the author doesn’t get “upset” at being them/they’d, but why do we have to add another layer of “who’s feelings do we have to keep from hurting?” to this ever-expanding maze of political correctness? If we all just admitted that the sex-binary exists and the outward presentation of humans doesn’t matter, we could save so much time and energy (and rape/death threats)!

[–] worried19 [OP] 16 points (+16|-0)

I took it as the author pushing back against attempts to other and de-feminize (is that a word?) GNC women. It's only those of us who don't conform to gender who are "theyed" without our consent.

[–] TheEthicalHedonist 15 points (+15|-0)

Totally. But they reason that the general public doesn’t just automatically go with she/her, he/him based on their initial perceptions is because we are at a place in society where misgendering has become the most cardinal sin and also an act worthy of threats of violence. Why risk calling someone the “wrong” gender when we’ve been taught that at least something “neutral” can’t be offensive. And now we’re being told that “neutral” can be offensive. I have no issue with GNC people wanting to be referred to as they prefer. I’m just acknowledging that this is another layer of rules that the general public is going to have to slog through, and then still get “wrong” according to someone.

[–] worried19 [OP] 14 points (+14|-0)

Yeah, that's a problem. People are reluctant to call a woman a woman because the idea is being pushed that any GNC woman you see is most likely disavowing her biological sex. I'm not sure the general public is clued in enough to worry about threats of violence, but they probably want to avoid an awkward encounter.

I live in a conservative area and have so far not been "theyed," thank God. But I feel like it's only a matter of time. In woke areas, people are even questioning children about their gender identity. On Reddit, I had one teacher tell me that she took aside a 14 year old GNC girl and asked her for her pronouns. No other female students, of course, just the GNC one.

[–] littleowl12 13 points (+13|-0)

I would say de-womanize. People are freaked out by butch women.

[–] worried19 [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

I like that much better. De-womanize points out the crux of the issue.

[–] Luckystar 7 points (+7|-0)

Not to mention the awful "women and femmes" phrasing, implying all women are "femme" by default

[–] femuhnist 13 points (+13|-0)

Maybe if we stopped getting rape/death threats for acknowledging reality, we might stop the attempts at the polite neutral.

Yeah, that's where I'm with this as well. I would love to call the vaguely androgynous women I run into "she/her" as the default, but in Wokeville, 99% of the time it's they/them. Getting it wrong by assuming they/them can happen, but no one cares. Getting it "wrong" by saying she/her, though ... literal violence! It's a real problem.

[–] worried19 [OP] 13 points (+13|-0)

Getting it wrong by assuming they/them can happen, but no one cares.

I mean, I'd care. It matters to the well-being of those women. The more they're called "they," the more likely they are to believe they're not real women. Therefore, more and more of them will opt out of womanhood because no one else seems to think they can be GNC and still be valid women. It's a vicious cycle.

[–] femuhnist 9 points (+9|-0)

I hear that. Politically, that's my stance. In the survival of the times, if you misgender the wrong woke nonbinary, you pay for it far more severely than you do if you misgender a woman who knows that she's a woman. It's asinine, it sucks, but that's the situation for me and I think a lot of people, unfortunately. Of course, practically speaking, the best thing to do is to avoid using pronouns altogether.

[–] bettyspaghetty 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

Nah, I've had people get mad at me for calling them 'they' even though it was on the internet and I don't care enough to check everyone's tumblr profiles for their pronouns. People like that treat 'they' as a specific pronoun and not an "I don't know but I'm gonna play it safe" thing.

[–] finn-again 19 points (+19|-0)

Calling women “they, them” has the identical effect as does using he, him, his as a universal which is suppose to include women. It dispenses with she and her. And it doesn’t acknowledge women as a collective or political entity. In other words, it’s a way of making all women, not just those whose sex isn’t apparent, disappear. To boot , it’s bad grammar, and adds to the remarkable incoherence of contemporary life.

[–] itsnotaboutewe 10 points (+10|-0)

I will only use they/them if I can't tell the sex of the person. If I'm sure of their sex I use the appropriate pronouns. That's probably all that's happening here. Asking for clarification on this point will land you in court, as an autistic boy in the UK discovered, so they/them is the better option if you don't want a conviction against your name.

[–] feralfeminist 4 points (+4|-0)

Same here. If I don't know, it's they/them.

Most places in the USA we don't have to worry about getting convicted of misgendering. NYC might be a different matter, and maybe one or two other places. In the end it'll come down to First Amendment rights; even the Equality Act wouldn't override that.

[–] littleowl12 9 points (+9|-0)

It’s impossible to shove people into the “other” category if you don’t create categories in the first place.

Can you imagine how upsetting TRAs would find this?

[–] kababaihan 7 points (+7|-0)

Why is this a big deal? Women get misgendered on the internet (everyone always assumes they're talking to a dude unless it's a clearly female space) and don't even bother to correct them anymore. No big deal, it really doesn't hurt and I don't feel violated.

I honestly don't know any woman who cries over misgendering the way genderspecials do.

[–] worried19 [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

It's harmful when you look at the number of GNC women who are disavowing womanhood, though. I'm not talking about the Internet, but the real world. There's a difference between mistakenly thinking a woman who looks like I do is a biological man and recognizing that I'm female but assuming I don't want to be.

GNC women are the only ones subject to repeated "theying" without our consent. And worse, this is seen as progressive. It's seen as sensitive and caring to assume that a masculine woman hates herself and her body. This just drives more and more masculine girls to consider that they're not real or valid young women.

A few videos that go into more detail about it:

Thoughts on butch erasure

Transgenderism & butch erasure

[–] Carrots90 4 points (+4|-0)

This is brilliant.

She is using their methods against them.

How dare anyone misgender her as non binary, 😂

Let’s hear about how hard it is to be a gender nonconformist lesbian woman!!

Good for you, lady! Be free to be your authentic self

[–] Duchess 1 points (+1|-0)

I feel like I’m missing something here. If my pronouns are she/her, then isn’t using they/them to refer to me misgendering me? Since the implication of the pronoun is that I’m non binary?

[–] bettyspaghetty 2 points (+2|-0) Edited

Eh, maybe. At the same time, people will sometimes get upset if you ask what their pronouns are so it's kind of a lose-lose scenario.

[–] worried19 [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

That's her point. That by assuming "they/them," woke people are misgendering women like the author as the default.