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79 comments

[–] ramani 90 points (+90|-0)

I am SO glad to see this, just to see that it was said out loud, by someone far braver than I am. I grieve for ANY woman gets killed after being involved in a domestic violence situation. I am a brown woman from a third world country, and am sadly all too familiar with this horrific situation.

It’s just one of those tragically, quintessentially FEMALE experiences that has been happening over and over again for fucking millennia. It’s happened to my own mother, and countless other women of every race, religion, economic class, just every segment of any given society in which I’ve lived. Why people don’t understand that I say just beyond me.

[–] NotASupportHuman 10 points (+10|-0)

👏👏👏👍❤️ thank you for adding your strong and rational voice!

[–] sarahokeeffenyc 73 points (+74|-1) Edited

Exactly, were these people talking about missing WOC before Gabby started getting media attention? No.

As an aside, I have a a bit of a controversial view on this topic - I think that the reason Gabby is getting so much more attention than WOC victims of domestic violence is because Brian is white, not because she is. He is an unequivocal villain. It's easy to vilify an entitled, upper middle class white male (rightly so).

But in the cases of most WOC victims of domestic violence, the perpetrator is a MOC. I just don't see the entire country uniting against a clearly guilty black man who has committed DV. Just look at the controversy around the OJ verdict. Cases with black male perpetrators force people to see nuance - if you think racism is real then you also have to believe that an individual black male could have also done something wrong to sympathize with the victim.

I just don't think if both Gabby and Brian had not been white we would've seen this kind of reaction - but more because we'd have to vilify a non-white male in order for that to happen.

[–] Jinera 54 points (+58|-4) Edited

Honestly I think if it was Gabby getting murdered by a black man, there would be more outrage regarding racism and people painting black men in the wrong way and white women playing victims, than the fact a woman just got murdered

[–] twoxfeminist 45 points (+45|-0) Edited

As someone who lived in the Bay Area I can recall a case of a white woman murdered by an illegal immigrant male that particularly horrified me because people were quicker to say that since she was white that the horror of her murder was simply because she was white and he was hispanic.

[–] Apricot_Ibex 30 points (+30|-0)

Omg. As if any time a man murders a woman ISN’T fucking horrific. It’s crazy that regardless of politics in America (and probably worldwide), people can all agree that men murdering women is either a punchline, or no big deal, or an opportunity to grandstand on some political point.

There were right wing men saying Mollie Tibbetts “got what she was asking for” by being murdered by an undocumented Hispanic man, because she was a liberal white woman who “wanted to flood the country with illegals.” They don’t really give a shit about her death, just want to mock a murdered woman.

They won’t ever name the problem— violent men.

[–] sarahokeeffenyc 19 points (+19|-0)

ridiculous, as if being white invalidating any injustice against her including GETTING MURDERED.

[–] hmimperialtortie 25 points (+25|-0)

I’ve seen a so-called feminist and former friend say prosecuting the Rotherham rapist gangs was just racism.

[–] CornflakeGrrrl 12 points (+12|-0)

This just infuriates me to no end. It's such a privileged worldview to be able to say something like, let's stop putting violent sexual offenders in prison. This is happening where I live too, though most people are still not saying the quiet part out loud quite so bluntly. And the people who are doubling down on this always have rich partners who work in tech or a trust fund or both. Must be fucking nice to live in a penthouse or a gated community where you don't have to worry about experiencing sexual violence yourself. When people say this, what they really mean is I am fine with poor women being raped if it alleviates my white guilt.

[–] proudcatlady 23 points (+23|-0)

I’m white and I have no love lost for white men. Lock them up, police them harder, whatever it takes. Get rid of them. But I’m more afraid of MOC not because I think they’re inherently more violent or anything, but just because of the current climate. It’s hard enough to get help or justice if the guy is white and an acceptable villain, as Gabby’s case shows. I’ve basically had people tell me white women don’t ever get to accuse black men of rape. I’d be silenced and locked away extra hard.

[–] Jinera 41 points (+41|-0)

I have had a liberal feminist tell me that white women could not be raped by a moc, because power is inherent to rape and a white woman was always more powerful than a moc.

It just... blew my mind and deeply saddened me.

[–] Failed_Furniture 18 points (+18|-0)

I relate to this.

I had a couple of terrifying encounters last year with a male patient working in a remote and isolated area of Canada. I've worked in healthcare for almost 20 years and he is the only patient that has ever scared me so deeply that I experienced visceral panic.

I was treating his concern and situation the same way that I would have for anyone with that particular complaint and presentation, but he didn't accept that. His response was to scream at me incessantly, run around the health centre like a maniac, and make multiple threats of violence.

This is a man who knew where my house was and had 24/7 access to me by phone via our on call emergency number. This is a community where hunting is prevalent. Saying you'll shoot someone to get what you want when almost every home has a rifle in it, is not a threat to be taken lightly.

One of the worst aspects of the situation was when he started recording me with his phone and screaming about how he was being treated improperly by me because he was an Indigenous man and that I was racist. Why would I be working as hard as I was there and doing my best to serve the community while thousands of km away from all of my friends and family in the middle of a global pandemic for months on end if I didn't give a shit about the people there? On top of his threats, the surreal dissonance between my intentions and his accusations felt like it was going to crack my skull open.

Although I knew I was doing nothing wrong and empathized with the history of trauma that had likely created this man's personality and difficulty coping, I also knew that an accusation of racism in the media (which is what he was threatening to do with his recording and in the recent context of the horrifying abuse and neglect of Joyce Echaquan) would carry a lot more weight than a male threatening a woman. Not to mention the potential impact it could have on my nursing license.

His accusation would carry weight. His abuse would ultimately be considered just a part of my job. And my terror was just some bullshit white lady tears.

[–] sarahokeeffenyc 15 points (+15|-0)

Totally - although I think it's more fair to consider this from the perspective of them both being black rather than her being white and him being black because she is likely a more sympathetic figure because she is white. In either case, if it were a non-white perpetrator his guilt would be much more controversial.

It would be "maybe he was running because he was scared of the cops" or "maybe she was the actually domestic abuser." ...Although tbh I have seen the second one but not so often that I'd say it's the prevailing narrative.

[–] cupcakes_and_shiraz [OP] 41 points (+41|-0) Edited

Her race is a factor, but it's also her class and the fact that she's an IG influencer. Most of the missing white women who receive attention seem to be of a higher socioeconomic class or well known in some way. I've never seen a case of a working class or poor WW make national news.

Even so, I don't like how black women are being used as fodder for an argument against inequities in media attention, especially by white lefty bros and other SJWs who do not care about us. They need to keep our names out of their mouths. Either highlight our stories or STFU forever.

[–] Iceni 29 points (+29|-0)

Indeed. I think all Jeffrey Epsteins victims were white, but they purposely went after lower class girls as they knew it was less trouble.

[–] twoxfeminist 17 points (+17|-0)

They're conveniently used right up until the news articles brings up black men who are currently missing.

The articles goes like this:

  • Complain about "missing white women syndrome", details Gabby Petito's case (which makes no sense since they're complaining about all the attention she's getting).
  • Talk about missing black men and details their case.
  • Lather/rinse/repeat

Meanwhile, missing black women and WOC are not even mentioned once in the dialogue, ergo further ignoring their plight.

[–] grumpyjewishfeminist 16 points (+16|-0) Edited

It would be so easy to be like:

We wanted to highlight some similar cases involving WOC victims of DV and then run some articles along those lines. Which would be the logical response to this complaint.

Has anyone been doing that?

[–] NotASupportHuman 11 points (+11|-0)

Not that I've seen - it is all "WHITE WOMEN ARE ATTENTION HUNGRY DEMONS" yet woman of any other color are ignored and discarded like that shirt you keep picking up to wear and mean to throw away but mindlessly and without care keeping washing until it fades away to nothing. Either you are a white female demon or a woman of any other color seen as a disposable subhuman unworthy of any attention unless used as a gotcha or scapegoat. Wtf is wrong with people?!?

[–] pennygadget 19 points (+20|-1)

But in the cases of most WOC victims of domestic violence, the perpetrator is a MOC. I just don't see the entire country uniting against a clearly guilty black man who has committed DV.

Also, people in woke spaces would be reluctant to demand that the police go after a Black man & his family the same way they (rightfully) demanded that the police go after the Laundrie family

[–] proudcatlady 10 points (+10|-0)

I could not agree more, although this probably depends on where you live. The media doesn’t want to make a MOC look bad ever, and where I live you can’t suggest it. I suspect in other areas of the US you could bring attention to violence by MOC, but probably not for the sake of helping or getting justice for a WOC. It’s an absolute clown world.

[–] CornflakeGrrrl 49 points (+49|-0)

God, this is so, so perfect. Refreshing to see that there are people out there who see what's going on. Thank you for sharing <3

[–] twoxfeminist 40 points (+40|-0) Edited

Anyone else disgusted how many news outlets are making the "missing white woman" argument to share news about non-white men as opposed to using this opportunity to segway into current cases of missing non-white women? This would be a great opportunity to talk about recent unsolved FEMICIDE murders of non-white women. It's obvious that these people do not truly care especially considering how flippantly they pivot away from examining a systemic issue affecting women and girls. Pointing out the racial component and overlooking the sex based component of IPV does no favors and just takes away the opportunity for conversation regarding IPV which would most benefit black and indigenous women.

Regardless, Gabby Petito was murdered. It cannot be a dead woman's fault that the news is covering her--blame news outlets. "Missing white woman" syndrome does not save a woman from being murdered; the only 'power' that it gives the deceased is more of a chance to have media outlets report on her which could result in a solved case. That much I understand is powerful and would be frustrating for black and indigenous women as a lot of their cases see no justice. Then again there's a lot of white women whose murders have no exposure because they do not fit the right profile that white male-controlled media is interested in (attractive, young, relatable). Black women that I follow have pointed out that the true 'power' holds in a white male murderer's ability to feign some crocodile tears on TV for a 'not guilty' verdict. Could white women do the same thing? Absolutely but on average we do not murder nearly as much as men do and are more likely to be the victims of men.

Shouldn't we also think of why this case blew up in particular? There are white women who have had more gruesome murders and are notably attractive (literal Beauty Pageant winners and so on) yet those women did not get coverage on par with Gabby Petito or Natalee Hollaway. [That isn't to negate the fact that white women do likely get more coverage/attention on average compared to black/indigenous women even if Gabby/Natalee are rare cases of extreme news coverage.] Some people have pointed out that the social media 'trail' played a part in people's fascination; since the case blew up on TikTok I am inclined to agree. Personally I think it was the boyfriend's bizarre behavior as well, like driving her van home without her, refusing to leave his home afterwards and speak with police, not reporting her missing. There's also the body cam footage that shows obvious abusive relationship dynamics which many women (including non-white women) recognize and some can relate to. In sum, it was luck that made her stand out among other murdered young white women.

I'm sure that there's an actual academic argument somewhere but imo "missing white women syndrome" is white patriarchy's response that a piece of property was taken from them; in the past, the sensationalization would be even worse if the suspect was a black male with the sensationalism coming from white men outrage of "how dare they take OUR women away from us!". Now with the current social climate that is more receptive to black men I don't know if that stands, I think it depends more on whether the white female victim fits a relatable 'profile' for men to care. If a woman is old with no children/grandchildren or unattractive then white patriarchy will not feel the same outrage.

[–] NotASupportHuman 20 points (+20|-0)

I agree except for "the only 'power' that it gives the deceased is more of a chance to have media outlets report on her which could result in a solved case"...

A dead woman of any color has no power because she's dead. Her family and friends have a level of 'power' but not her... being dead tends to remove anything remotely resembling power from the deceased.

Sorry to be pedantic but it really grinds my gears when people attribute life qualities to dead people.

My best friend in high school was an amazing fucking person that was murdered by a drunk driver leaving work to celebrate my 16th Bday. The gift she made me and her card to me were in her car with her and were kept as evidence and eventually discarded like she was. The news didn't cover it because it was an affluent area and she (like I) was poor and being raised by a single mom (it was part of how we found each other as we had to work while our peers drove brand new BMWs, Mercedes, etc). She was disposable, unwanted, and forgotten except for those of us that love her. The man that murdered her was an affluent plastic surgeon, he got off on probation and a depression treatment program and was back to advertising his cosmetic bullshit less than a year after he murdered the girl who was at the time the light of my life and the only person I believed loved me. She was brilliant, strong, funny, surfed the best dude surfers out of the break, and brought joy to every fucking person that could appreciate the fantastic human she was. I miss her voice and her friendship - it has been 28yrs and I still feel a void. Her brother and mother each committed suicide within two years of her death. She has no power, her family had so little power they gave up from heartbreak... but the motherfucker that killed her still has a successful practice currently selling it to retire as per my last visit there. He murdered her and got a slap on the wrist. He always had the power, she didn't have a chance to make or gain power.

[–] CornflakeGrrrl 9 points (+9|-0)

Oh my God, I am so sorry. Everything about that story is infuriating and disgusting. I am glad you and she shared such an amazing friendship before she was taken away too soon. <3 Hugs and strength to you <3

[–] actualdyke 25 points (+25|-0)

it's pure deflection because they simply don't care or at least don't want to think about the topic at hand. when a white woman goes missing it's "you only care about white women!" but when a WOC goes missing its radio silence from these people. The phrase missing white woman syndrome is yet another term invented by the liberal left to take away from womens genuine issues and concerns. add that next to 'karen', 'hysterical terf', 'cis', etc

[–] bluetinfoilhat 7 points (+7|-0)

Don't forget calling something "white feminism" like being opposed to prostitution.

[–] actualdyke 5 points (+5|-0)

lmao i remember seeing them call chimamanda a white feminist ... computer malfunctioning noises

[–] twoxfeminist 0 points (+16|-16)

Karen was invented by the black community and was a legitimate term to criticize racist white women until white men got ahold of it and ran with it.

[–] actualdyke 21 points (+22|-1)

I am aware of that but the fact still remains that as of right now it is a derogatory term that it's almost exclusively used to dismiss women and make them look insane. saw a story not too long ago about a girl complaining that her mother was a Karen for insisting on medical treatment for her. the original meaning is LONG gone.

[–] twoxfeminist 1 points (+9|-8)

Understood, I wanted to add that in there as you said that it's a term invented by the liberal media. A lot of black feminists feel that white women are escaping accountability by dismissing the term when it originated from our own racism.

[–] SueGen 18 points (+21|-3)

I never found it legitimate. I always felt it was being used to attack white women because it's too scary to punch the real perpetrators.

[–] proudcatlady 7 points (+13|-6)

I hear you, but white women such as myself have got to stop being defensive and actually listen to our black sisters and what they need. They get the worst treatment of anybody (except maybe indigenous women) and we have to have solidarity with them. If they’re saying we’re doing something bad, it’s our job to (a) not do the bad thing, and (b) call out other white women who do the bad thing.

[–] twoxfeminist 4 points (+13|-9)

I understand and can agree that fighting against white men who have the benefit of white patriarchy is harder than fighting against white women. However I hope you might read my other comment and see why black feminists feel afraid of white radical feminists because of the lack of accountability. You shouldn't feel personally targeted by a word that came from legitimate instances of racism; that's like men saying that they feel uncomfortable with our rhetoric because they haven't done anything wrong themselves.

Until we take accountability, there will be no female solidarity.

[–] Mmmm_Brains 13 points (+14|-1)

The history of Karen is pretty complicated, it seems it stemmed from comedians and Reddit as well as the black community and we can't pin point who exactly invented it.However the ones who used it the most were Redditors and misogynists. It gained popularity in recent years and has become another way to brand women as hysterical.

I don't consider it legitimate, Karen is someone's name and I don't think it's okay to use it as an attack. Call them what they are, racist, but there's no need to add more fuel to the gender war imo. As it is everyone is a Karen now, and I'm shocked that people are shocked this happened. Another way to mock women? Of course men co opted it.

I always thought it had class origins. I used to see posts in places like Customers Suck about a specific type of nasty snooty female customer that would be the bane of underpaid employees everywhere. She didn’t have a name back then but had the “ask your manager” haircut. Kate from Jon & Kate Plus 8 got ragged on for having the haircut.

I started to see her get named “Karen” on Reddit the past 5 years but it didn’t have racial connotations at first.

But maybe that’s because I wasn’t hanging out in the right places, idk.

[–] proudcatlady 10 points (+10|-0)

Yes, we all know this, but we also all saw exactly what was going to happen to that term the second it went mainstream.

[–] hedy 10 points (+10|-0)

The number of legitimate terms to criticize racist white women is equal to the number of terms to criticize homophobic black men, misogynistic gay men, or any other bigoted segment of a demographic with its own history of oppression.

Zero. Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that legitimizing any such term amounts to drawing a straight path to dog whistling.

[–] Ash94 -1 points (+0|-1)

I agree. It came from the white woman who called the police on black people grilling at a park but the white male misogynists scream KAREEENNNN at every woman who disagrees with them, they don't even have to be white.

[–] zeniazenana 20 points (+20|-0)

Exactly this. And calling it a syndrome trivializes what happened to Gabbi. Neglect of cases about woc is a huge problem. Violence against women is also a huge problem and a large number of DV victims are white. Pitting these two issues against each other serves to diminish the activism for both the issues.

I think the original idea of intersectionality was the merging of these issues. To highlight that black women face the additional persecution of being black along with being women. But instead it has become a hierarchy of victimhood where the man larping as woman sits on top.

[–] littleowl12 18 points (+18|-0)

There's a vibe of "what about MEN who get raped?!" to this. You know how whenever women talk about rape stats, some dude has to come in and talk about male rape? But these same men are never interested in the problem outside of when women are talking about themselves.

It's the same thing with murdered black women- leftists talk about how they need to talk about them, but never.....talk about them. They don't want to. Black women who are murdered by their domestic partners is a thorny subject- their killers are usually black men. Leftists get very squeamish about the patriarchy of men of color. They don't want to add ammo to any stereotypes about the violence of black men.

But it's black women who pay the price for that. They're the ones who get silenced. If they are addressed, it's in round about ways, vague, full of newspeak, the fewer details the better. If they're lucky, the reports will "celebrate her life" as a way to avoid talking about her death.

Besides that, I think there's something tasteless when a tragedy has happened, it's very fresh and awful, to interrupt and say "what about ________?!" Gaby Petito didn't get picked for prom queen. How she was murdered is not yet clear, meaning Brian Laundrie likely chopped her remains up. He most likely strangled her, which is slow and painful.

The cop who could have saved her life ignored the obvious signs of abuse, and treated her like SHE was crazy and violent. Where was all her privilege and protection then?

And sadly, these pundits could pick any number of murdered black women to focus on their shows. Any day of the year. They don't. They never do. So I don't want to hear them virtue signal by acting like Gaby Petito is getting more attention than she deserves.

[–] Zola 18 points (+18|-0)

i hate these woke people who pretend to speak for me when they silence other women. makes me think they really fetishise the pain women get

[–] ArmyofMe 13 points (+13|-0)

It’s so ridiculous to see big lefty media outlets going on and on about silence over missing women of color as if they aren’t media outlets? Vice, slate, jezebel, et al. You are the problem.

[–] OneStarWolf 13 points (+13|-0) Edited

Love her. She’s right. Media and misogynists are the only ones taking advantage of Gabby’s death. One for money, the other to spread vitriol and misogyny.

Of course the news media does actually have a problem with over focusing on white women in such cases, but it’s not the women’s fault. It’s a symptom of a deeply racist and sexist male-run media machine that knowingly profits by spamming images of pretty dead white girls for mass consumption.

WOC deserve way better. I’m so sorry you get invoked by people who only care to use you as a cudgel for their misogyny.

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