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83 comments

[–] Luckystar 72 points (+72|-0)

I mean, those clearly aren't women, but to be fair, I do agree that attacking the physical appearance of TIMs is a low blow. They're not women because they're male. Blaire White is as much of a woman as Gamestop Ma'am is -- not at all.

It's hard, because sometimes their sexist idea of what a "woman" should be is just SO absurd and over the top that it invites mockery. I really, really struggle with some people. But I think it's better to not stoop to that level if possible.

I agree it's cruel to make fun of a person's looks because you're just stuck with your genes, BUT these men are not showing us their best normal male selves. They are made up in costumes thinking they look like women. They do not. They look like fools. Laughing at someone who is intentionally dressed as a fool is a different kind of ridicule to me. They've chosen to make fools of themselves by ridiculing women.

[–] boudica 34 points (+34|-0)

BUT these men are not showing us their best normal male selves

Very, very true. There are quite a few TIMs that were originally quite attractive males, but they turned themselves into grotesque facsimiles of humanity with their cross-sex hormones, plastic surgery, and awful attempts at dressing up like a "sexy teenager." They chose to look like this and they get off on it. They could stand with being knocked down a peg or two or ten.

[–] [Deleted] 6 points (+6|-0)

Both the TIMs I dated were of normal attractiveness for a man.

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

I don’t mock men for dressing femininely, just for the over-the-top little-girlishness of it and the freakish expression they always wear, like they’re fantasizing about wearing the skin of an underage anime catgirl.

[–] blahblahgcer 52 points (+53|-1)

Half of their arguments against us are "they want to be us because we're hot and they're not" so I feel like this is fair game at this point

[–] crodish 35 points (+36|-1)

I support medical care for transpeople because clearly their eyesight and mental health are failing them

[–] yikesforever 12 points (+13|-1)

x'D I don't think there is a single woman in existence on this earth who would want to be a TiM. What an extreme and ridiculous delusion.

[–] AmyHousewine 2 points (+2|-0)

If I were a sociopath, and I thought I'd 'pass,' it might be nice to have a TiM's sense of entitlement and willingness to use any tool, including my superior physical strength and cultural power, to get my way all the time.

(If I were a sociopath.)

[–] hmimperialtortie 49 points (+52|-3)

They deliberately make themselves grotesque. They probably look quite ordinary by the low standards men set for themselves, but in their pornified, often paedophilic guises, they look like the freaks they are, and damn yes I’m going to mock them.

[–] sensusquaeram 48 points (+49|-1)

They deliberately make themselves grotesque

and are beyond cruel in their consistent mocking of women.

I'm not about tearing down people because of their appearance.

Viciously cruel and horrendously racist TIMs behaving like toxic fools online, undermining the already shaky self-esteem of young women and telling old women to die off and get out of the way?

I will knock that shit down to the frozen center of hell without batting an eye.

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

Like I said to other users, I don’t mock men for being feminine or having gender dysphoria. I make of TIMs who are entitled and give off a creep vibe. (Which is most TIMs, admittedly.)

[–] RawSienna 33 points (+33|-0)

I have finite sympathy these days, and I choose not to spend it worrying about offending people who are offending me.

[–] sensusquaeram 7 points (+7|-0)

Same. I'm responsible for keeping my own behavior within my own chosen lines. What I won't do is tone-police, shame, or scold other women or girls for their anger. They've earned it, and they don't need me insisting that they "be nice."

[–] AmyHousewine 2 points (+2|-0)

I think a noted black feminist scholar said this, but I am crap with names: "Anger is our superpower." Women often are mobilized when they can no longer suppress their rage at their abuse. I'm not about to say "now be polite, dearie" at that point.

There is room for discussing how anger can be channeled in to more and less effective ways of enacting change. But the anger itself? Repressing it is part of the damage women suffer.

[–] Rainbows 19 points (+19|-0)

I think the point is that they have cute anime avatar of kids online but they're actually grown men in real life. A huge difference between how they portray themselves and how they actually are.

[–] [Deleted] 0 points (+0|-0)

I’m not mean to nice TIMs who don’t call themselves women or invade our spaces. I don’t feel bad though about mocking creeps. Who tend to look like this mainly because they have a creepy fetishistic vibe.

That said, I’m glad you feel that way. I’ve left anti-TRA spaces that seemed like they were just about hating people for being trans (not counting toxic trans behavior like demanding validation). I’ve also come across users here who made clear their “feminism” is hating men. So it’s nice knowing not everyone here feels that way.

[–] Lilypad9999 53 points (+53|-0) Edited

They're not making fun of them because they're ugly, they're making fun of them because they are obviously men who are pretending to be prepubescent girls.

[–] eris 19 points (+20|-1)

I think they're also making fun of them because they're ugly. But that's just a bonus.

[–] spicyramen 39 points (+39|-0)

I feel like what the original meme expresses isn't "they're ugly haha"--it's pointing out how they make themselves look like "real women" through these cute stylized avatars, but when you look at a real picture of them, the physical reality of how MALE they are destroys the illusion on which they've built their identity and ideology.

[–] Hooplaboopla 18 points (+18|-0)

Pretty much. The cutesy, childish cartoon photo lures young people into trusting them online and chatting with them, idolizing them, and imitating them.

If young people saw the real photos, they would be dissuaded from emulating behavior.

Unfortunately, images help fool people into following transideology. People say "that looks exactly like a woman, would you want 'her' in the men's prison?" when filters and angles are used artfully.

What you're saying is very close to the intended truth.

[–] Peachy 28 points (+28|-0)

I mean, men have been critical of biological women's appearance for eons. I guess it's a new feeling for them.

[–] worried19 26 points (+27|-1)

I agree with GenderCynical on this one.

I don't give a flying fuck what trans people look like. I only care about their actions. You can not pass at all and still be a respectful person, like Debbie Hayton or Miranda Yardley.

My stance is that it's cruel to mock people for their appearance. It serves no purpose beyond making us look bad, both to TRAs and those who are more in the middle. If someone says something terrible on social media, we should take them to task for their words, not their looks.

[–] hmimperialtortie 39 points (+40|-1)

These are men mocking and pretending to be women and girls. They’re in clownface and it’s all driven by misogynistic fetishes. Making themselves look like this isn’t “their appearance” ie the way they were born. It’s deliberate. This is a case of “actions speak louder than words”.

[–] worried19 24 points (+25|-1)

I don't believe all trans women are fetishists or acting in bad faith. The ones who do say awful things should be held accountable for their words. I think it's stupid purely from a strategic standpoint to go over after them for their appearance.

It also gives fuel to those who think we're just a hate group. I don't hate trans people. I want them to be able to live their lives in peace.

[–] hmimperialtortie 29 points (+29|-0)

I’m talking about the men on this page, and the AGPs in general.

I have no use for misogynists, and the trans lobby is a particularly powerful group of such. These men are not trying to “live their lives in peace”, they are the most prominent face of the backlash against feminism in the Western world.

[–] bellatrixbells 26 points (+26|-0)

I understand what you're saying but I also think that there is a point to the meme which you haven't taken into account.

It seems to me that the poster might be mocking the particular trans trend of having a girly girl anime avatar that looks nothing like the person hiding behind it. Plus I think hmimperialtortie isn't wrong in bringing up the fetishistic factor as I don't know about you, but in my experience most anime avatar sporting TIMs are deep into waifu/furry/whatever, and pretty violent with women and especially feminists online.

I'm not sure people like Miranda and Debbie present themselves like this either. Rose of Dawn was accused of using an "unrealistic" avatar at some point and defended herself by pointing out that it was fanart and, quite truly, unmistakably her.

Point is, is the meme mocking the people for their appearance or for the way in which they choose to present themselves ?

You can mock someone who is trying to look edgy, metal, gangsta, etc without necessarily laughing at their physical attributes, wouldn't you say ?

[–] worried19 1 points (+6|-5)

Yeah, I agree up to a point. But there are some who seem to delight in pointing out trans women's physical characteristics, not just their choice of clothing.

I'm not excusing the fetishists, but sometimes it feels like people think every trans woman is a fetishist and misogynist. I have trans women friends that I've made on Reddit. I don't believe that all trans women are bad, that they're all out to do harm to natal women and girls. I don't even think it's most of them. The ones who are like that are clearly a problem, but I support the people who are out there living their lives quietly and in good faith.

[–] kyria 5 points (+5|-0)

The "I have transwomen friends" trope is part of the problem. See Lisa Nandy or Rebecca Solnit. You're more concerned about them than about the women and children whose lives these "friends" are helping to damage.

[–] kyria 7 points (+7|-0)

Hayton is an man with a fetish who forces his students to call him "Miss" and colonizes women's spaces. He has zero respect for women or girls.

[–] worried19 2 points (+2|-0)

You have a link?

I don't follow Hayton, but all the news articles I've seen show that Hayton is extremely vocal about being male and appears to be aligned with us on all the issues.

[–] sensusquaeram 3 points (+3|-0) Edited

I cannot agree with anything I've seen on GenCyn, including this -- given the [NSFW link warning] behavior and likely intent of the OP.

Trans people who are doing their best to navigate GD and negotiate daily life in an admittedly poor state of affairs for mental healthcare have my empathy. Detransers have my empathy.

Bad-faith redditors do not. If TRA behavior overall is igniting anger and pushback from young women on Facebook -- that's chickens coming home to roost, and I'll be the last person pleading with them to "be nice."

[–] worried19 1 points (+1|-0)

I didn't mean the OP, just the people pictured in that meme. I don't know anything about them beyond those photographs.

[–] sensusquaeram 1 points (+1|-0)

Sorry, I can't separate out action, intention, and medium like that. In my experience they're equally weighted with significance. How the OP delploys this, where the OP got it from, what the OP seeks to evoke cannot be separated out from its superficial content for critique. It's too loaded.

[–] ikizurai 18 points (+18|-0)

Was curious about the original post and this is literally the most recent submission by him: https://www.reddit.com/r/sissy_positive/comments/jzxq7n (archive (warning for nsfw))

The thread of the OP is full of people claiming some of the 'women' in the pic are cis (I recognize them all as I've seen this pic before, they're all trans women posted either on admittedly mean sites for making fun of people on the internet or on their own twitters/blogs/etc) or that the pics are photoshopped to look worse than they are or that the people in this pic pass but they're making funny faces and the mean terven are taking this out of context.

As one of the commenters put it: there's a lot of copium in that thread.

[–] eris 26 points (+26|-0)

My favourite thing about this thread: the meme doesn't state that "in reality, you're ugly". It just says "you in real life".

But everyone in the thread instantly thinks that these men are ugly and they keep talking about it even though that wasn't necessarily at all what the meme was about.

Talk about shallow.

[–] bumpyjerboa 7 points (+7|-0)

I mean, aren't the commenters noting that the real transphobes for not saying these laydees are stunning and brave?

[–] babayaga 13 points (+13|-0)

I'm sure if a couple of these pics were posted in a pro-trans subreddit asking, "Do I pass????" there'd be a bunch of replies reassuring them that they do. It's only when these pics are put in a mocking context that TRAs are actually honest.

[–] sensusquaeram 6 points (+6|-0)

Welp. What little cred that thread may have had just royally fucked off.

[–] bellatrixbells 5 points (+5|-0)

I like the fact that the comment section says "wow, such empty".

Quite. That's just gross.

[+] [Deleted] 1 points (+1|-0)
[–] Amareldys 13 points (+13|-0)

I'm not in favor of attacking people for their appearance. I think men should be allowed to have long hair, dramatic make-up and the like. As far as I'm concerned, you go boy, but it doesn't make you a woman.

[–] itsnotaboutewe 8 points (+8|-0)

Those men put their photos on the internet for people to see them and probably also to judge them in order to get validation from others. I believe that people without makeup, wigs, or artifice of any kind cannot be ugly. The natural state of the human body exudes beauty. When people try to disguise who they really are all that beauty drains from them. There is beauty in accepting the truth of your body and celebrating it. Lies make people ugly and these men are not telling the truth to us or themselves and it shows.

[–] bellatrixbells 13 points (+13|-0)

There is danger in saying it's okay to judge them because they put their photos out there since that argument is much used by men trying to justify insulting every woman who dares put up a public picture or show up in public, and will be happy to add that she was looking for approval, etc.

I'd rather argue that they are insulting us all the time so fuck them.

[–] sensusquaeram 8 points (+8|-0)

Very much my sentiments. The real dealbreaker for me is the undeniable core of violence in those particular lies.

[–] AmyHousewine 7 points (+7|-0)

I don't see this as making fun of them for being grotesque. I see it as a useful rebuttal of two of the dumber claims TRAs make constantly:

  1. We're jealous because they woman better than us.
  2. YoU cOuLd KnOw DoZeNs of them because they pass so well you'd never know; all you can say is whether you know an out TiM.

Bullshit, to both. Illustrated powerfully by nothing more than pictures of these paragons of womanhood themselves.

[–] sensusquaeram 3 points (+3|-0)

Ditto. I instantly read it as a sharply exaggerated perception-reality rebuttal, not a cheap shot at at people's appearances.

[–] Blade 6 points (+6|-0)

What's the deal with the anime?

[–] kyria 4 points (+6|-2)

It's a fetish. A pedophilic one. Yet, as always, there are women here feeling sorry for the perverts and complaining that we're being mean to them. SMH.

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