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I've just finished my first watch of Voyager, and in the past year also watched DS9 for the first time, and I feel like we've regressed so much when it comes to tv characters. Voyager has strong women, who are sensitive; strong men, who are sensitive; men who believe in logic; women who believe in logic; men who are a bit goofy, but have important skills and get respect; women who are angry, but have important skills and get respect.

And for none of these characters the fact that "I'm a man but sensitive" or "I'm a woman but a really good leader" is a big deal. It's just who they are, but it's not their character arch.

I love it and feel like we've lost this completely on tv. If you're not stereotypically man / woman, that's the story for your character. So boring!

So, yeah, I just started an immediate re-watch because the Spaceship is my safe place.

I've just finished my first watch of Voyager, and in the past year also watched DS9 for the first time, and I feel like we've regressed so much when it comes to tv characters. Voyager has strong women, who are sensitive; strong men, who are sensitive; men who believe in logic; women who believe in logic; men who are a bit goofy, but have important skills and get respect; women who are angry, but have important skills and get respect. And for none of these characters the fact that "I'm a man but sensitive" or "I'm a woman but a really good leader" is a big deal. It's just who they are, but it's not their character arch. I love it and feel like we've lost this completely on tv. If you're not stereotypically man / woman, that's the story for your character. So boring! So, yeah, I just started an immediate re-watch because the Spaceship is my safe place.

21 comments

That's something I love about Star Trek. It's a shame they put a "non-binary" character on Discovery, which is a huge step back, and have been trying to trans Jadzia.

[–] klytaimestra [OP] 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

The most ridiculous thing about that is that A) hundreds of years in the future, we're still going to be worried about pronouns, really? Like, everything else has developed way beyond the current state of things, but we're still pretending using 'they' is somehow relevant? Language hasn't moved at all? And B) if gender identity really is a real thing, not just an imaginary concept, we haven't figured out how to fix everyone's sex to match their identity at birth? E.g. if non-binary exist, let's just 'fix' you into hermaphrodite. Surely, if these concepts are real, then hundreds of years from now medicine surely would have evolved so that all people who 'identify' as women, will be women, and the concept of 'trans' becomes obsolete that way?

I really liked Discovery otherwise though. Although on it, I feel like the "strong woman" is a stereotype rather than just one dimension of a complex character.

edit: grammar

[–] Constantine 6 points (+6|-0)

I feel like the "strong woman" is a stereotype rather than just one dimension of a complex character.

This is the big thing now. Look at any of the big franchises: Star Wars, superheroes, whatever, Hollywood makes all these overpowered female characters with no flaws or interesting personalities whatsoever and calls it feminism. Well, “girlboss” feminism, anyway.

It’s why I’ve all but given up on modern franchises. I still follow Marvel to an extent, and anything JKR puts out I’ll watch/read, but other than that I’m out, and I’m really into this stuff generally.

It’s just a flip of the old stereotypes. Now instead of being helpless and having to be saved, women have to do all the heavy lifting and grunt work, and men get all the character development and bring the levity to the storylines. That’s not progress.

[–] Ishahchai 2 points (+2|-0)

I still follow Marvel to an extent

I’m curious to see how the Black Widow movie is going to play out, now that they’ve done such a phenomenal job humanizing female characters with WandaVision. I appreciate that they made Wanda a sympathetic but realistically flawed character and didn’t rely on the crazy-Wanda trope from the comics. They set the bar pretty high for female character development and I’m on the fence if they can bring that to a character who has thus far existed in the MCU for the male gaze.

[–] ActualWendy 1 points (+1|-0)

Or... maybe, in the Star Trek future, if a person's mind doesn't fit their body, there's a medical treatment for that? Perhaps treatments for mental illness will progress as much as physical illnesses, *because the mind is not separate from the body. *

[–] arylcyclohexie 10 points (+10|-0)

i've seen personally seen people in a star trek group talking about ds9 and "why jadzia might actually be trans"

they demonstrate no understanding of trills. i think it's innapropriate to transpose human social constructions on other species, in a time very far from the current. it's ignorance.

i am so protective of her, this really grinds my gears. she means a lot to me.

She's one of my favourite characters in the franchise, and one of the reasons is this lack of gender ideas in the trill culture. I am protective of her, too.

[–] Dark_Mercy 4 points (+4|-0)

and have been trying to trans Jadzia

I saw a meme a while ago about how, one of the klingons (I don't know who) that was friends with Curzon (spelling?) Like respected trans people, "be like him" but they all talk about Curzon. Sisko calls her "Old Man" she doesn't care.

I've seen this meme. Complete misunderstanding of the nature of the Trill.

[–] Dark_Mercy 4 points (+4|-0)

And if I remember it right it feels more like it should be addressing trans people, since she doesn't get offended by "old man" she knows she is Jadzia Dax, but if people remember Dax as Curzon that's okay with her.

Something, like that.