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I've just finished my first watch of Voyager, and in the past year also watched DS9 for the first time, and I feel like we've regressed so much when it comes to tv characters. Voyager has strong women, who are sensitive; strong men, who are sensitive; men who believe in logic; women who believe in logic; men who are a bit goofy, but have important skills and get respect; women who are angry, but have important skills and get respect.

And for none of these characters the fact that "I'm a man but sensitive" or "I'm a woman but a really good leader" is a big deal. It's just who they are, but it's not their character arch.

I love it and feel like we've lost this completely on tv. If you're not stereotypically man / woman, that's the story for your character. So boring!

So, yeah, I just started an immediate re-watch because the Spaceship is my safe place.

I've just finished my first watch of Voyager, and in the past year also watched DS9 for the first time, and I feel like we've regressed so much when it comes to tv characters. Voyager has strong women, who are sensitive; strong men, who are sensitive; men who believe in logic; women who believe in logic; men who are a bit goofy, but have important skills and get respect; women who are angry, but have important skills and get respect. And for none of these characters the fact that "I'm a man but sensitive" or "I'm a woman but a really good leader" is a big deal. It's just who they are, but it's not their character arch. I love it and feel like we've lost this completely on tv. If you're not stereotypically man / woman, that's the story for your character. So boring! So, yeah, I just started an immediate re-watch because the Spaceship is my safe place.

21 comments

[–] klytaimestra [OP] 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

The most ridiculous thing about that is that A) hundreds of years in the future, we're still going to be worried about pronouns, really? Like, everything else has developed way beyond the current state of things, but we're still pretending using 'they' is somehow relevant? Language hasn't moved at all? And B) if gender identity really is a real thing, not just an imaginary concept, we haven't figured out how to fix everyone's sex to match their identity at birth? E.g. if non-binary exist, let's just 'fix' you into hermaphrodite. Surely, if these concepts are real, then hundreds of years from now medicine surely would have evolved so that all people who 'identify' as women, will be women, and the concept of 'trans' becomes obsolete that way?

I really liked Discovery otherwise though. Although on it, I feel like the "strong woman" is a stereotype rather than just one dimension of a complex character.

edit: grammar

[–] Constantine 6 points (+6|-0)

I feel like the "strong woman" is a stereotype rather than just one dimension of a complex character.

This is the big thing now. Look at any of the big franchises: Star Wars, superheroes, whatever, Hollywood makes all these overpowered female characters with no flaws or interesting personalities whatsoever and calls it feminism. Well, “girlboss” feminism, anyway.

It’s why I’ve all but given up on modern franchises. I still follow Marvel to an extent, and anything JKR puts out I’ll watch/read, but other than that I’m out, and I’m really into this stuff generally.

It’s just a flip of the old stereotypes. Now instead of being helpless and having to be saved, women have to do all the heavy lifting and grunt work, and men get all the character development and bring the levity to the storylines. That’s not progress.

[–] Ishahchai 2 points (+2|-0)

I still follow Marvel to an extent

I’m curious to see how the Black Widow movie is going to play out, now that they’ve done such a phenomenal job humanizing female characters with WandaVision. I appreciate that they made Wanda a sympathetic but realistically flawed character and didn’t rely on the crazy-Wanda trope from the comics. They set the bar pretty high for female character development and I’m on the fence if they can bring that to a character who has thus far existed in the MCU for the male gaze.

[–] Constantine 1 points (+1|-0)

Yeah, I really enjoyed WandaVision. I was so angry about Black Widow’s treatment in Endgame though that anything short of perfection isn’t going to do it for me with this movie. Even if it is perfect somehow, I’ll still be pissed they waited so long to give the character her own movie. I mean she’s already dead in universe! We have to go back in time to do it, so why wasn’t the movie released way back when it’s going to be set? Of course I know why, and that’s why I’m pissed.

I’m anxious to see how they’re going to treat Lady Thor, Valkyrie, Captain Marvel, and this upcoming introduction of Ms. Marvel in Phase 4. I hope Scarlet Witch remains strong in the films and not just on the small screen. I still have some hope for Marvel which is why I still tentatively follow the franchise.